The Real Bottom Line

Wendy Brookhouse: Hello and welcome to the real bottom line, where we interview entrepreneurs about their entrepreneurial journey and things they've learned along the way. My special guest today is John Keel. Welcome, John.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Wendy, I'm excited to be here with you. Thank you.

Wendy Brookhouse: I'm thrilled to have you here. I would love to hear. How did you become self-employed? An entrepreneur and a business owner?

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Well, I'm in my 3rd career.

Wendy Brookhouse: Okay.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Yeah, and I'm 77 years old. Most people don't believe that. But

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: my 1st 1st job I went to work for a small company, and and have a couple of engineering degrees. And so so I always knew I wanted to sell technical equipment, which I did.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and over 23 years, so

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: that quarter 1 billion dollars worth of stuff

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: in the water and waste water treatment equipment industry

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: ended up owning and running the business. Or it ran me.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: More probably almost lost my family.

Wendy Brookhouse: Oh, wow! Okay.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: But didn't got my head right and my heart right, as I say.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: was there 23 years? And after colleen, and I, my wife and I got my.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: After I got my stuff together

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: we decided that I needed to sell that business.

Wendy Brookhouse: Hmm.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Again. I was the the owner

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: had 65 employees did about 15 million in revenue.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and I mean it was a successful business still is today

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: no job.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Yeah, I'm sitting there with no job, you know, had

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and some money.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And along the way I'd gone back to Xavier University in Cincinnati through the executive Mba. Program.

Wendy Brookhouse: Okay.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And then took every finance course they offered finance.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: but I was on the Dean's Advisory Board, and since I didn't have a job, he said, Well, why don't you teach?

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: So I adjunct in the Mba program for about 5 years.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Again, not knowing what I was going to do.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: January of 97. 2 students came down out of class one night and said, What do you know about the Internet

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: now? To give you some frame of reference, Wendy. There were 72,000 websites in the world at that time.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I remember saying, I don't know much, guys, but I I have the time. So I took the next 8 to 10 weeks

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: just went online dial up.

Wendy Brookhouse: Yeah.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And just 8 to 10 HA day, and just looked at websites. And I got excited. I said.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I love small business. I have a passion for small business because we are the net job creators.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I believe in the world's economy.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And I said.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: if I could learn some of this stuff I could help small businesses grow. Yeah.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: got connected with 5 guys to today are considered grandfathers of online marketing

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and paid them a fair amount of money to learn from them.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: came back to Cincinnati after about 6 months.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: thinking, I'm just gonna

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I'm gonna knock them dead. And I had 0 success for 6 months.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: cause I knew how to sell, but I knew nothing about marketing.

Wendy Brookhouse: Right.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: But I

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: got connected with some other people who were really good at that, and over the next 25 years build a

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: build, a business, and I set 4 rules for myself. 1st of all

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: in between. When I didn't know what I was. Gonna do I said, Number One. I'll never have to go somewhere to go to work.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Secondly, I I will only work with people that I like.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: 3, rd I'll have no employees.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and 4, th I'll have no receivables.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and I've done all that, for, you know, 30, 30 plus years now.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: over 25 years built that up to about a million a year

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: in recurring revenue.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Worked with 15 or 1,600 clients around the world.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And I never talked about mark online marketing

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: because I

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: discovered early that

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: most small businesses don't want to spend or invest in marketing, but they want the results.

Wendy Brookhouse: Okay.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Which is increased revenue for most of them.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And so that was always my focus over 25 years.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and things were really going pretty well, and I did a lot of speaking from stage. And

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: even I've been. I've been a zoom user for a long time.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Well, before the pandemic

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: march 1, st 2020 hit.

Wendy Brookhouse: Yup!

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: The wall, as I call it. I was actually on my way that morning, Wendy, to go over and pick up a $20,000 check

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: from each of 2 new clients to to get them started on a new project.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: One called at 9, and one called at 9 0. 5 am, and said, Don't bother coming by.

Wendy Brookhouse: Right, yeah.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: 2020 was the year of the ostrich. In many respects.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: So

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: my second career, I basically said, Well, I you know the numbers never lie in business.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: We lie to ourselves, but the numbers never lie, really. And

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: how am I gonna pivot? Well.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I'm kind of sliding into the next part in terms of how I got involved in Linkedin

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: was talking with a friend of mine in Toronto one morning

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: shortly thereafter, and he said, You know you've been talking about Linkedin for the last couple of years

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: as a great b 2 b platform. How's that working?

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Well, I hadn't done much with it.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I talked a good game, and

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: by that time I had built up to about 8 or 9,000 connections, doing it all wrong, using automation, doing all kinds of things which should kick me off the platform.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And I said, What do you mean? And he said, Well.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: how often are you posting on Linkedin

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: cause I knew, I mean, I mean, I knew Linkedin was.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I had a sense that Lincoln, our vision, if you will, it was gonna be good.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I said, Well, maybe maybe once a month, maybe I don't know there was no strategy.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and he said, no harm, no foul.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: How much exposure are your posts getting?

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And I didn't know.

Wendy Brookhouse: Yeah.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I never looked at it. I had to go into my Linkedin account

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and look, and I said, Well, market looks like somewhere between 200 and

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: 5 or 600 views on a post

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: minimal engagement

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: in terms of likes and comments.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and and Mark's words were

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: that sucks.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and it didn't hurt my feelings because

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I didn't know any better.

Wendy Brookhouse: Yup!

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And which is the case with most people on Linkedin today, and he introduced me to some friends of his his in the Uk.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: who had developed a white label

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: service product

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: 3 years, 4 years beforehand.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: that when they spoke when I spoke with them a couple days later.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: they said, oh, this one!

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: It's it's magic.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I don't remember their exact words, but that's how they came across.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: This will explode your linkedin exposure 300 to 500%

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and the ensuing engagement.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: although I was born at night, not last night. And

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: yeah, I've been in business 50 years, and I don't believe that kind of stuff

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and did nothing now. They gave me access to nothing for 2 months, month, and a 2 months.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and one morning. I don't know if I was feeling sorry for myself or what

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I said. Well, maybe there's something here.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and I

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: use the system.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: My 1st post had over 4,000 views on it.

Wendy Brookhouse: Nice.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: That got my attention.

Wendy Brookhouse: For sure.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And I said, Well, maybe there's something here, and I can continue to use the system a couple of times a week, 2, 3 times a week.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Finally I said, There's there is something here, and I called. I set up a zoom call with the CEO,

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and I, said, Mike.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I've been around a long time. I have a great network.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: would love to take this to people that I know.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I know I could call. They'd take my call, because I know we know each other.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And he said, Well.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: thanks for asking.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: He says I'm going to expand this business to white label partners.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and I picked my 1st 4,

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: one in Australia, one in Spain, one in the Uk, and one in the States

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: people I've worked with for the last 2 or 3 years that I know I can trust.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: My name obviously wasn't on that list.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: that being our 1st call.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and he said that he said.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I mean my quote, I said, I remember this

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: verbatim. I'm glad for them, and I'm glad for you, Mike. But what about me?

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: You never know unless you ask, and he said, Well, I've checked you out.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: You have an excellent reputation in the marketplace.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and I've actually talked to 4 or 5 people that know you.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and would you be interested in being in the world? White label partner number 5.

Wendy Brookhouse: Nice.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Launched that business a couple months later.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: profitable right away

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: again. But I understand the online world.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: although I still found, after about a month, Wendy, that that people still they could use the system.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: But they didn't understand Linkedin.

Wendy Brookhouse: Yeah.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Because even back then.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I mean, this year, Linkedin has already made a hundred 70 point changes to the platform.

Wendy Brookhouse: Okay.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Some major.

Wendy Brookhouse: That's for sure.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Yeah, and and many not. But even back. Then mannikin was making changes, and as good as they are, they do an equally poor job at communicating those changes to the users.

Wendy Brookhouse: No kidding. So okay, let's let's save that for a second. We're gonna dig into Linkedin shortly what I'd love to hear a little bit. So in your 1st business. You learned that

Wendy Brookhouse: structuring the business, and it to the to the detriment of your family, was not good.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Not good.

Wendy Brookhouse: So were you working too much, traveling too much, not making enough money like? What were the things that were the symptoms of

Wendy Brookhouse: understanding that that wasn't working for you.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I had no relationship with my wife and no relationship with my daughters.

Wendy Brookhouse: Okay.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: oh, typical. And I see this today, a lot of many guys in their early forties, and maybe women too, but

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: particularly guys.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I knew I was important. Just ask me.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I had a very high opinion of myself. Yeah.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: humility was not in my vocabulary.

Wendy Brookhouse: Gotcha.

Wendy Brookhouse: When did that come, John?

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Well.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: true, true story.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I'm meeting with my Pre. I went to the Episcopal Church in Cincinnati, and I went to my

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: priest, and for the 1st time in my life

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I was honest with him in terms of what was going on.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I've never been honest with anybody in my life, including my wife.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I had the, you know. I had the shell, the the

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and he said, you know.

Wendy Brookhouse: Of success.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: The right. The right house wanted the right country club. All the stuff.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And and Jim said, John, he says you need professional help.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I said, I know

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I knew we know.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: we actually were separated for 3 months.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: went through some. Very, very good, I won't call it counseling, but help in that in regard.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and then it was 5 to 10 years to

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: reconstruct things.

Wendy Brookhouse: Yes.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Which I'd torn down.

Wendy Brookhouse: Was there a had trust been eroded over that time, as well, probably to.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: What's that? What's that word trust?

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Oh, yeah. Big time, I mean, I remember my when I went to the psychologist that we that we had, he he interviewed me, and he said.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: says, I'll take your case, he says quite frankly. He says your Academy award award winning material.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: He says the reality is, you're unfit for human consumption, but I can help you.

Wendy Brookhouse: Oh, my goodness, John!

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Oh, I was

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: sounds bad.

Wendy Brookhouse: That's tough, like. Obviously the carrot of re of a renewed renewed relationship with your wife and family was big enough for you to go through the pain, because that type of work is not easy.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Oh.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: it was! It was

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: really hard, and it didn't happen overnight again.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: You know. You don't gain

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: 30 or 40 pounds overnight. It takes 1020 years, and it took it took 10 years.

Wendy Brookhouse: With regards. How soon in that process did you sell the business like? How soon did you realize that that was not something you could shift or change to make it amenable to the situation.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Great great question.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and what many business, particularly small business people don't realize.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: You just don't sell your business.

Wendy Brookhouse: Yeah.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And you'll generally always maximize the value if you sell to people who are already there because they understand the business. It took 5 years to put that together.

Wendy Brookhouse: Okay.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And that was not a fun. 5 years, because I already knew I was going to leave.

Wendy Brookhouse: Right.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: But we got through it.

Wendy Brookhouse: Well, good for you and I I think you you're speaking some real truth there like always always doing the work along the way to prepare your business for sale whether you're gonna sell or not. I think, is a great lesson for most entrepreneurs, because obviously along the way you had no intention of selling, but then life, circumstances changed, and you needed to sell, to make, to get an outcome that you were looking for with your family.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: The one thing we put in in into play.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and it was from before I was there.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: because the company was a hundred years old.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: an annual valuation.

Wendy Brookhouse: Perfect! Yep.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And I. I actually taught business evaluation in grad school and understood that. And so it was. Just go to the what's this? What's the formula say, but we did

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: the best time to know where the fire escape is is before there's a fire.

Wendy Brookhouse: That is that I I love that I might vote you on that one.

Wendy Brookhouse: So that was sold, and then you started in a business. I it feels like to me from that conversation like you're like an Og Internet guy like you're original.

Wendy Brookhouse: You were in right from the get-go, right from the ground floor.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: A lot of people have come and gone.

Wendy Brookhouse: I I'm curious, just from a perspective, you know, looking backwards 30 years and thinking about that 6 months of when you were going off and learning the Internet.

Wendy Brookhouse: Did you

Wendy Brookhouse: see what it could be like? What it is now? Or was it? Did you ever see that it would be as much as it is now. Do you know what I mean like? Because it's gone so far.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: No, yeah. I mean, I I wrote the 1st book on pay per click search engines. This is Pre, Google.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: yep.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: back when you could buy clicks for a penny

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: 1, 2 cents per click. Wow! In the late nineties. And and

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: who who would have thunk it today?

Wendy Brookhouse: I know right.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Just as one example.

Wendy Brookhouse: Actually remember going in on dial up and in that, or in that same time frame.

Wendy Brookhouse: and I always found it like hard to figure out, where should I go? What should I be looking at right? Whereas now it's like my go to? It's it's my Encyclopedia Britannica. If I'm not date myself. Right? We can find anything out. And then now with AI. It's even crazy.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: My gosh! A whole nother! Revolution!

Wendy Brookhouse: Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is the next wave, isn't it

Wendy Brookhouse: the biggest shift? So okay, so now, you've started a linkedin business.

Wendy Brookhouse: who should be on Linkedin John, who should be on it.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: It is the number, in

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: not only in my opinion, but in the opinion of many people.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: the number one business business to business platform in the world, 1.1 billion users

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: adding 4 more users every second.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: you know, people ask me, well, what social media are you on? I said one.

Wendy Brookhouse: You help.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And I don't consider Linkedin social media is a business social platform.

Wendy Brookhouse: Right.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: but my clients are not on Facebook, or

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: what are Tiktok or Instagram? I don't even have accounts in those. Yeah.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I do happen to have a Twitter account, but that's only because Linkedin does not have customer service that you can reach to. You have to go through a Twitter account

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: access them, but that's the only reason I use it.

Wendy Brookhouse: Okay, well, that's good to know. So

Wendy Brookhouse: with entrepreneurs. So there's business to business. But we also have entrepreneurs who are selling. So maybe smaller businesses.

Wendy Brookhouse: What are the biggest mistakes they're making right now, John.

Wendy Brookhouse: on Linkedin, when they're using it.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Well, I give a talk. I have a standard talk that I give called the 5 Fundamentals

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: you need to master for success on Linkedin.

Wendy Brookhouse: Yes.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Because most businesses have fundamentals that never change.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And Linkedin's no different, and the 1st one

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: is, have a great profile.

Wendy Brookhouse: Yeah.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Linkedin says that 95% of profiles are no good, and and their words my words, they suck. They really are. They're bad.

Wendy Brookhouse: What makes a good profile.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Understand against the mentality? That's a good question.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: It's a mentality that understand that we when people come and see your profile and the first.st That's the 1st thing they'll do when I find out about a new person. That's where I go.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: You've got 5 seconds.

Wendy Brookhouse: You got 5 seconds.

Wendy Brookhouse: and then they've already judged whether you're a good.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Or they judge him. Yeah.

Wendy Brookhouse: I want to do business with you. So is that a combination of like our headlines and our picture, that type of stuff.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Yes.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: to answer your question. I mean a a good, a picture. That's you.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: a great banner graphic.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And there are

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: 7 or 8 other things you can do to to affect the above the fold view and look of your profile.

Wendy Brookhouse: I I often feel like there's some subsections like there's so much to the profile. Now, what do you think is the most underused

Wendy Brookhouse: tool in that toolbox that people could be using to better.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Well, and Lincoln has just made a big change within the last 6 months on the featured section and the about section. They've kind of reversed them.

Wendy Brookhouse: Yeah.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: On the page.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: But within the about section, in fact, let me just pull up my profile real fast. I'll do this

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: because I don't try to remember anything, Wendy.

Wendy Brookhouse: Okay, yeah, go look at it. I'm the same way. I I have to know the right questions and where to go find the answers, but the answers are changing all the time.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: The services section.

Wendy Brookhouse: Okay.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And and I almost think

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and I'm not alone in this, that

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: that section

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: is really, although Lincoln is not a

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: transactional platform, it's a relational platform.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Lincoln is making it easier to sell because of the Services section. If you do it right.

Wendy Brookhouse: Okay, so we can actually turn it into something. It's almost, it's, it's really becoming a a website. Isn't it like in terms of the functionality and what we can do on the Linkedin profile.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: No question. In fact, if I were starting all over today, I don't know if I'd have a website

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: seriously.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: yeah,

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Linkedin is so powerful.

Wendy Brookhouse: So the biggest mistake you're seeing is that people don't have a good profile, and by by Linkedin standards they're saying like, over 90% don't have a good profile

Wendy Brookhouse: and

Wendy Brookhouse: The other thing I see, or that's kind of my pet peeve is when I get invitations to connect.

Wendy Brookhouse: And I can tell right away

Wendy Brookhouse: that it's

Wendy Brookhouse: It's some sort of system automation piece and

Wendy Brookhouse: whether it's just the standard language they're using. They're not even you know what I mean. Like.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: What's.

Wendy Brookhouse: Right way and wrong way to start building your profile. And when I say profile, building the people who you connect with and engage with.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I think it's important to know what's your IC. What's your ideal client profile?

Wendy Brookhouse: Right, yeah.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Are they? Yeah. And then you can. You can search them. You can use

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: do it for free on Linkedin.

Wendy Brookhouse: Yup!

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Although if you have a premium or sales navigator account, it's a lot easier. But you could still do it for free. And then you have that list, if you will.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: of people you aren't connected to. You don't know.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and you don't reach out to them right away.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: But you.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: if I just had this conversation last week.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Guy was saying, well, gosh! I I put my list together, and half my list has not been active on Linkedin within the last 30 days.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I said, well, you're not going to reach out to them on Linkedin, are you?

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: He said. What do you mean? I said, well, if you do, they won't see your view. They won't see your message

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: because they're not on Linkedin.

Wendy Brookhouse: Yeah.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: So.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: finding that list, finding the people that are active.

Wendy Brookhouse: Nice.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: check their posts.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: comment on their posts.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And not nice posts, but

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: some weeny message like that, but

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: add value.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And and really it's no different to me than it was

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: in my selling, going way back 30 years, 40 years

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: bring add value. First, st

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: when you add value for your planting seeds.

Wendy Brookhouse: Yeah, yeah.

Wendy Brookhouse: that's amazing. I also feel like within Linkedin. There are some posts that I find

Wendy Brookhouse: seem to veer off of what I expect to see on Linkedin.

Wendy Brookhouse: Do you have some guidelines that you provide people that go? Here's

Wendy Brookhouse: here are the boundaries on posts like, do you have some rules around that that you share.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Oh, I just in my cause, I do. In my you know I I do this

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: bi-monthly masterclass where I

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: to go through all things, Linkedin.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I said. Look.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: people don't really care what you do.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: They don't care about your title. When your company was founded.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: They care about one thing themselves.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: We all have self-interest at heart.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Yeah, how are you going to help them transform from where they are to? Where they want to go? Yeah.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and and and write and and do videos in and around that

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: framework.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And it's not

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: transactional. It's not wham, bam. Thank you, ma'am, it's just it's not. It's just it's relationships and relationships take time

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: in the online world. And the offline role.

Wendy Brookhouse: So in particular. So

Wendy Brookhouse: our our Linkedin is becoming

Wendy Brookhouse: are super

Wendy Brookhouse: big business card, so that anyone meets you. They're automatically. Their 1st thought is not necessarily go to website, but go to your Linkedin profile. Check you out there.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: 1st thing.

Wendy Brookhouse: So that's why it's so important.

Wendy Brookhouse: what have you seen in terms of return on investment? Right? So somebody who takes the time

Wendy Brookhouse: to do the work, to get that profile up to date and optimized like, how much time should I give to to that activity

Wendy Brookhouse: versus? And then how long does it take before it starts to show

Wendy Brookhouse: that it was worth it?

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: When I got serious about Linkedin.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Yeah, I'm going back only 4 years, 4 and a half years.

Wendy Brookhouse: Wow, yeah, yeah.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I wanted people. I wanted to

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: established a presence, and so I knew that would take some time, and I've done that.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: But then I was consistent.

Wendy Brookhouse: Yes. Okay.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Not once a month

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: that I posted 3 times a week.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and I

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: my goal is, I comment on 10 posts per day. I use some AI to help me do that to save some time.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: But that's again just establishing my

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: credibility and authority of somebody who knows what he's talking about.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Oh, in my teaching, and I've got a master class later on this this afternoon with my members, and I'll one of my subjects is

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: if you're spending more than 5 HA week on Linkedin.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: You're doing it all wrong.

Wendy Brookhouse: Oh, okay. Tell me more, John.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Well.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I believe you only need to post

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: 3 times a week

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: 5, if you really are

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: super ambitious.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and it shouldn't take you that long to write a post.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: especially if you're using AI to help you.

Wendy Brookhouse: Oh, for the post in particular. Yeah, yeah.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And then on the comment, same on the commenting.

Wendy Brookhouse: When when

Wendy Brookhouse: the the direct messaging.

Wendy Brookhouse: or the inmail like, when when should I use one versus the other?

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Well

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: in mail. Open rates are, I think, less than 5%.

Wendy Brookhouse: Okay.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And in mail is really not that effective. Most of the people who use in mail I have found

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: my from my personal experience. They're selling me something and don't sell to me.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Develop a relationship with me first.st

Wendy Brookhouse: Yeah.

Wendy Brookhouse: what does that look like for you, John?

Wendy Brookhouse: How do I know that I'm doing the right things to develop a relationship.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Well, when you're commenting on somebody's post.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Are you leading with value.

Wendy Brookhouse: And.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Understand.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: They don't care what you do.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Nature.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and I do a lot of training for sales with sales, teams, small sales, teams.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: That's the hardest thing they have to overcome.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: It's just

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: guys. It's a long-term play.

Wendy Brookhouse: Yeah.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I sold a quarter 1 billion dollars worth of process equipment over 23 years.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and the last

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: the 1st 5 5 years. I mean, I did. Okay, but it wasn't great. The last the last 5

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: was over the moon. But

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: yeah, there are no overnight successes

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: in life.

Wendy Brookhouse: So patience, consistency.

Wendy Brookhouse: And really, it sounds like really caring about who you're talking to in the sense of,

Wendy Brookhouse: yeah, the providing a value. I want to give you something that will help you so.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: How many.

Wendy Brookhouse: Value based conversations. Will you have like through

Wendy Brookhouse: posting on somebody's thing before you reach out, and then try and have a conversation, or have some sort of conversion event, or you know what's next.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Great question.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I I follow. What's it called I. I follow something called social selling.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: in social selling. I'll comment on somebody's post if if I have no connection with them at all.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: 2 to 3 times over several weeks. Yeah.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and at some point, and it's adjustable.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I will reach out and I'll

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: send a soft connection. Request.

Wendy Brookhouse: What's a soft connection? Request, John.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: You know I've been as you as you may have noticed. I've I've been following you, and I've commented on several of your posts specifically of this one, that one yeah, personalizing it.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I think we should be connected. I think there may be some mutual interest for us to be connected.

Wendy Brookhouse: Right.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: That's it. And, by the way, what I don't do is oh, and let's go ahead and schedule a call. And here's my calendar, link.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: No.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: you don't have permission to do that. You've not earned the right.

Wendy Brookhouse: Okay.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Know what I mean.

Wendy Brookhouse: Earn the right. I like that.

Wendy Brookhouse: Yeah.

Wendy Brookhouse: You know, one of the things I I think a I think this automation piece might be not always used correctly like I'm like, if it sounds like automation, don't say it. And for God's sake don't send me an email back the minute I say yes, like, even if you wait an hour to 2 h of the next day, it's still okay. Then I'm more likely to think it's a person than I am.

Wendy Brookhouse: An autobot of some sort.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Yeah. And and, by the way, Linkedin is doing a lot to

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: monitor that.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I mean, they have a whole team out in California around the world. I guess that's automated, or

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: finding people who are misusing.

Wendy Brookhouse: Show these.

Wendy Brookhouse: Hmm, so I'm a a business owner. What is the number? One thing I need to know about Linkedin

Wendy Brookhouse: that will sway me into using it.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Your clients and potential clients are there.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And you can find out within a month

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: if that is true or not, just by doing some basic research. Yeah.

Wendy Brookhouse: Well, that's good, John. What haven't I asked you about Linkedin.

Wendy Brookhouse: or presenting myself in the best possible way on Linkedin, that you think.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Question.

Wendy Brookhouse: Should have.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Understand, there is no easy. There is no easy button. Thank you. Staples.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Yeah, I've posted about that several times.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: It's just

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: it's consistent effort

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and get better.

Wendy Brookhouse: Right.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And and understand that. Yeah, I'm a lifelong learner.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I've become a lifelong learner

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: you'll never be able to keep up with Linkedin. I. I spend about 10 to 15 HA week, just staying up to date on Linkedin. But that's all I do.

Wendy Brookhouse: Yeah.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: For most people, you don't need to do that.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: but just

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: find people that you can follow, that you trust.

Wendy Brookhouse: Hmm.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Going back to Johnny Carson's game show in the fifties. Who do you trust.

Wendy Brookhouse: Right.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Because you can't trust everybody

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: out there.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: if they say it, I mean there. There are 10 people that I follow, that I'm close to

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: in the world. Yeah, that's my my posse. I call them.

Wendy Brookhouse: Yup!

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: When they say it.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: It's gospel to me.

Wendy Brookhouse: I call those people my inner circle, John.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: There you go!

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: That's awesome.

Wendy Brookhouse: Well, how can people get a hold of you? I'm assuming it's on Linkedin, is it? Is it John Keel or Jonathan Keel on Linkedin. How do we.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Well, that's a great question. If you go to my I'm John Keel, JONK. EL.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: But it's important to get your account verified.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: in the States. Well, I think it's probably same in Canada.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: and my profile for

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: 15 years with JONK. EL. And then, when I went last year to get my account verified.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I needed to have my name on. My profile appears the same on my driver's license and passport.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: which is James St. John Keel, Jr.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And

Wendy Brookhouse: Oh, wow!

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: I I

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: they make the rules, we follow them.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: And once I made that switch.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: But I can always tell when I'm getting an automated response

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: when it says, James, blah blah blah! No, that's not my name.

Wendy Brookhouse: That's right. You. If you were paying attention you'd know.

Wendy Brookhouse: Oh, my God! It's almost your tricks. It's your trick. Switch your trick switch for people to to be able to tell.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: Yup, exactly.

Wendy Brookhouse: Awesome. I have loved our conversation, John. It feels like we just started to talk, you know, there's so much to Linkedin, but definitely it is a tool. But I think the real bottom line here today is is

Wendy Brookhouse: it is a tool. You need to get on and optimize your profile

Wendy Brookhouse: and be consistent.

Wendy Brookhouse: Thank you, John.

Jon Keel - All Things LinkedIn: This has been fun. I've really enjoyed the time. Thanks for the opportunity to get together and chat with you today, Wendy.

Wendy Brookhouse: My pleasure, John, my pleasure.