The Real Bottom Line

Wendy Brookhouse: Hello and welcome to The Real Bottom Line, the podcast for entrepreneurs featuring entrepreneurs. And today, my very special guest today is Kathy Bennett. And I'm so excited to have you here, Kathy. Thank you for joining the show today.

Cathy Bennett: Thank you for having me.

Wendy Brookhouse: Now, Kathy, you are quite the entrepreneur. Some might even give you the title serial entrepreneur.

Um, how did you find yourself owning the business? Your own businesses. How did that happen?

Cathy Bennett: Well, I had spent, um, coming out of high school. I started working in the restaurant business, uh, in the McDonald's franchise. And I spent 17 years there working for, um, other folks and then decided, um, that the, my itch to be my own boss and be the, uh, the owner. Um, and being able to execute on my own ideas and the team's ideas probably in a more fulsome way.

Um, it led me to become an owner operator of, at the time, the largest, uh, female joint venture, um, operation, uh, in Canada.

Wendy Brookhouse: That is amazing. Um, we were talking, you know, prior to this interview about just how much you can learn about running a business from a franchise model of McDonald's because they seem to have everything sorted.

Cathy Bennett: Well,

Wendy Brookhouse: were some of the biggest message lessons you learned from operating that franchise, but even just running that as a business?

Cathy Bennett: well, I think one of the, um, uh, really cool things about working in a franchise, That's global, like McDonald's restaurants is, um, is you get the benefit of, you know, decades and decades of refinement around operations platforms. So from a, from an execution perspective, it was a really good environment to learn the importance and the value of, um, things like continuous improvement, um, consistency of standards, um, training programs, uh, management development programs, and all the tools that were kind of built.

Throughout the decades, the franchise had been established to support those pillars. Um, the other thing that, um, the experience gave me, it was an opportunity in a high volume, um, environment to make a lot of rapid fire decisions. So, it's really difficult not to make really quick decisions when every lunch hour or every supper hour, um, is, you know, a make it or break it type of experience.

And you get to, um, refine your problem, um, solving and your strategic thinking, um, very significantly with that type of intensity of, um, you know, rapid decisions when you're on, on the, on the restaurant floor as the manager or when you're running the operation as an operations supervisor or owner operator as I did.

Wendy Brookhouse: Yeah, I was, I can remember still to this day. So I worked there as a teenager. I still remember QSCV,

Cathy Bennett: Absolutely.

Wendy Brookhouse: service, cleanliness, value. So the training aspect and how it's repeated and all the values are repeated really do sink in. And that must have been an interesting learning as well. Just how repetition works.

Cathy Bennett: Well, I think the, the wonderful thing is that the repetition for me bled into, um, other companies that I went on to own. So, um, while we had a, you know, a, a mission vision values inside, um, McDonald's Canada as an example and McDonald's globally, um, we had one for our own franchise and then subsequently for other companies that I was part of, we had, Uh, mission, vision, values, and, um, same thing with quality standards, service standards, putting the standards, and one of the things that I think I took away from that is the importance of clearly setting objectives early, so everybody can play on the same team.

Um, it's really challenging as an entrepreneur, especially entrepreneurs who move quickly. Um, you know, we're having all these ideations about our business and if our teams, um, aren't on the same pace, it's very difficult for them to execute at the level that we expect execution to be if they don't have a clear understanding what the vision and the deliverables are for customers, whether it's a direct to consumer or it's a B to B operation or it's an operation serving the public sector.

You always want to make sure that your enterprise. is focused on the direction of the customer. And McDonald's was a great learning ground for me to understand how to, you know, set a target and then gut check against the customers to see if we were actually delivering.

Wendy Brookhouse: Oh, fascinating. So when it came to your next ventures, where did you end up and how did you decide? Like, so you, you're operating McDonald's, you have a number of them under your umbrella. What's next?

Cathy Bennett: So we had, um, some needs, uh, that we were fulfilling using other companies. So for example, when we were doing Uh, renovations, uh, remodels to the restaurants, uh, we would have to contract that out to, uh, a contractor. Um, over time, we started to take on more, uh, small projects internally, and then subsequently we ended up acting as our own subcontra our own contractor.

And then we did some, uh, re uh, renovations for other folks, so that kind of created that business. Um, we needed some office space and, Um, because we had, uh, capacity issues in the restaurants and that brought me into real estate and we had some, um, real estate acquisitions and we created a company, um, that was offer, offering, um, at the time, um, boutique office space for short term and long term rentals, uh, in a very unique way.

And then we were also, um, working with, uh, some international recruitment companies. Bringing in, uh, to welcoming to Canada folks that wanted to come work in our franchise as managers. And, uh, I decided that I wanted to partner with that company and we ended up, uh, as a, a partner in a international recruitment company.

Another one, which is a bit more of a, um, maybe a humorous story for your, and a powerful story, I guess, for your listeners. I had a, a mom call me one day and her daughter was, um, running a day spa. And the mother who I knew well from the business circles wanted me to mentor the young girl. So I agreed to do it.

And as I mentored her, I realized this was a really incredibly talented young woman who really should be the owner of this business and wanted to buy it out, but didn't have the capital. So I became a, um, a partner with her and we bought out a day spa. And then subsequently I sold my shares back to her, uh, many years later.

So it was a, It was, you know, kind of a similar path that I walked when I didn't have the capital, but ultimately a partnership was an opportunity for me to partner with McDonald's Canada to make the purchase. And in her case, the partnership with me allowed her to have, uh, her dream.

Wendy Brookhouse: Well, that's interesting. So very much, uh, like a vertical integration so that you were controlling even more of your, you know, ecosystem, if you will, um, for, for all your, the words, all your needs, all your business needs.

Cathy Bennett: Absolutely. Mm hmm.

Wendy Brookhouse: Has that been kind of the way that you proceeded, like, did you ever go beyond that into different places with it when you were

Cathy Bennett: Yeah. We did, um, I did grow, um, into a, um, industrial construction fabrication company. where I was a minority partner. Um, and that was based on um, some opportunities that I felt were in, available in the region. And, um, we had some capital that we wanted to deploy. And I thought it would be, you know, it would be an extension of the commercial, um, construction work that we were doing in some regards.

Um, I think that, you know, for me, if I think back, was there a common thread amongst all of it? For me, it was around opportunity. And, um, Just like, um, I kind of had waited a long time to become a McDonald's operator, not because I wanted to wait, but because the system, um, was not ready for me. And, and, and the right sale didn't manifest itself.

Um, once that sale happened and I became a joint venture and then subsequently bought McDonald's Canada out, um, I got really aggressive on opportunity. And, um, you know, where I saw an opportunity that financially made sense, uh, and where our team had the capacity to expand, we expanded because it provided more opportunities for that team.

And I really, that was the one thing for me that was so important was the people.

Wendy Brookhouse: Right. Yeah, I've, I've, you know, I hear, uh, I've talked to some like Tim Hortons franchise owners and they said at some point it just becomes a people game. In, in terms of finding the right people, training them, retaining them, keeping them engaged, it becomes the primary focus.

Cathy Bennett: Yeah. And I think if, if, if folks, I mean, like I wanted to be challenged in my own role, um, as I moved from a joint venture, you know, a supervisor, a general manager into an owner operators position where I had a joint venture and then subsequently bought out the, um, the company. My team members wanted the same upward mobility.

So if we became stagnant, um, then the opportunities for them became stagnant. So if you're going to attract really good talent, part of attracting good talent is making sure that you can continue to, you know, stretch them and they can achieve what they want to achieve, um, at the same time as you're achieving what you want to achieve.

Wendy Brookhouse: You talked a bit about opportunities that you see. So what was the lens? What were the criteria or the filter you used to analyze an opportunity that made you go? Yeah, this is for me or not so much.

Cathy Bennett: Yeah. So typically, um, the first filter, uh, would have been, can I make a difference? So is there something I can see on the surface and the surface, I think for, For folks that look at businesses, we all see different things on the surface. Um, but I always judged if I could see something on the surface that, um, I knew I could make an impact on or that with, you know, some subtle changes would, would, you know, make a step change in the company.

Um, that to me was a really good test. Secondarily was the financials. Um, I made sure I had really strong, um, CFOs that worked with me, um, because for me, um, I was not necessarily the person you'd ask about risk. I was the person you'd ask about reward. So I needed to have a, an internal business partner in my CFO who could comfortably challenge, um, whether or not the investment or the acquisition or the sale even, um, made good financial sense.

Thanks. And, um, lots of times I could see the opportunity. I didn't always see, I didn't always see the financial risk. And that's why early on, I realized that I needed to have these folks that can put the riverbanks around us entrepreneurs as we're racing ahead. Um, so that we get right to the cliff and we stop before we go right over the cliff.

Wendy Brookhouse: Uh, one of my favorite quotes is, is, um, if you work for a yes man, one of you is redundant. So

Cathy Bennett: Yeah.

Wendy Brookhouse: I love that you had that ability to build team in a way that might be counterintuitive to some because you're actually looking for people who will be contrarian to you. If, if it makes sense.

Cathy Bennett: a hundred percent. I mean, part of the McDonald's, um, management development training. Um, I, you know, a number of different leadership styles were ones that I felt very comfortable with and, you know, I was used to making rapid decisions and some decisions in business shouldn't be made rapidly, right?

So having, um, folks that are more thoughtful in that they take a little bit more time, would also allow me to take a little bit more time, which was, was helpful. So finding, um, you know, people who had different skills that could smooth out our executive team, whether it was a chief legal officer, chief financial officer, um, whether it's a chief operations officer, we wanted those skills, um, to be different, but also complimentary filling gaps.

And we, um, did profiles, um, of all of us and we shared them with each other. So folks knew what, you know, strengths and weaknesses were. Um, you know, I would tend to be the one that was called in a crisis because I was, you know, able to make a decision expeditiously and process a lot of information.

Whereas, you know, my CFO knew that there was no deal going to happen, ever, unless the CFO signed off on it. Because that was a commitment I made to, to them. And it was helpful for me to, to have people who knew, um, that I trusted them and that the decision was going to be a collective decision. It wasn't going to be just solely my decision.

We made better decisions because of it.

Wendy Brookhouse: where did you find your people?

Cathy Bennett: Some of them, um, were in our internal team that I, uh, knew over a long period of time and provided opportunities to develop. Um, on the financial side, I'd often lean on my, um, external financial advisors, uh, for recommendations. Uh, we would, you know, when we had some turnover, we'd interview, um, extensively, and, um, do a lot of reference checks.

Um, and I typically, um, Because I had a lot of interviewing experience, um, I think over my career there was 4, 000 people I worked with. So, um, you know, I,

Wendy Brookhouse: you are good.

Cathy Bennett: it was, um, it was really important for me to have, um, a lot of one on one time with, uh, key, you know, C suite executives that we brought in. And, uh, usually the CFO was external, CLO was external.

And COO often was somebody that was internal or had grown up in the McDonald's systems because of McDonald's. Portion of our business was a significant part of our overall company.

Wendy Brookhouse: Yeah. And you, you do have to understand the, their, their magic and their methods for that for sure. When have you divested yourself from all of those core businesses that you had at one point acquired?

Cathy Bennett: Yeah. So over time, um, post some, a couple of years I did in public service, um, we divested of all of those enterprises. Um, it was really important for me to give, um, opportunities to, for example, that young, uh, you know, found young woman who purchased the day spa, right. To make sure that she had, um, the full share structure back in her, uh, treasury as opposed to be sharing it with me.

Um, and it was also really important. I worked with the previous operator, um, for 17 years, six of which he was trying to sell his business. And it was not a pleasant time, wasn't a happy time. It was a very difficult time with, for the employees. So I swore I would never do that to my team. So when the time came for us to make a decision, we made it, we executed it, and, um, it was We had built a pipeline of buyers, um, that helped us execute that in a way that didn't take six years.

Wendy Brookhouse: Uh, talk to me more about a pipeline of buyers. What did you look for in a buyer? Because obviously your people are important to you. So I would assume. That, that would be part of your qualification process for buyers as well.

Cathy Bennett: Well, and in a franchise system, it's not a, it's not a, it's not like a marriage, right? Uh, you know, you don't get to pick your partner. Um, you have to have, um, it's an arranged marriage because your franchisor, um, has to approve the partner. So it, it does take time, uh, to build somebody in your, in your, uh, business area who, who will be approved by the national franchisee, franchisor.

And in my case, we were lucky enough, um, that we had, um, uh, a person that we had sold a restaurant to, quite strategically, uh, who, uh, demonstrated really strong skills to McDonald's Canada, and over time became, uh, He gained their confidence to be able to buy, uh, buy out the business. So it was while it didn't seem like to, um, our team members that it took six years, it definitely happened over the course of five or six years, but we planned it well in advance.

Wendy Brookhouse: Uh, amazing. With regards to thinking about planning for the future and for planning to sell, what do you think is the runway that most business owners should be considering? Mm

Cathy Bennett: Well, I think to build your pipeline of buyers. Um, in my case, I talked to my accountant and lawyer the day that The joint venture deal closed with McDonald's Canada and told them that their number one job was to make, make me accountable to, uh, prepping the business for a sale. And that was 20 plus years before we actually sold.

Um, I think the day you buy a business, you're actually, you know, you should really be thinking about it. Um, because at, at some point, whether through an emergency or a crisis or for planning reasons, that time is inevitable. And I think what we all too often see is folks that wait. And avoid that planning and then end up in a situation where there isn't a crisis or there is They get tired and weary and we all kind of wear down as entrepreneurs And we can't find a pipeline of buyers and a pipeline of buyers for me are you know folks that are in the same business Similar businesses who might want to grow their own Um, so industry associations where you're hanging out with folks that do the same things you do Um are really helpful Franchisee organizations like we had were really helpful You Um, you know, you have to find like minded folks who are interested in the same type of business operations that you're, you actually are running and that helps with the pipeline.

On the planning side, um, you know, building your, um, the value of your business and making sure that from a debt perspective, you're not taking on debt, um, at times in your business cycle where it doesn't make sense or it's going to impact a sale price. Those are things you understand. And then in our case.

We, we actually used a, a, a, an evaluate, a valuations person, um, to help us, um, ensure That, um, in the last year, you know, we weren't leaving anything kind of undone on the balance sheet or the income statement that, you know, should have been a little tighter. And, um, the last thing I'd say is, you know, you've got to always run your business lean.

And I don't mean, um, I purposely said not mean and lean because I do think there's a difference. When I say lean, um, if, you know, you're, if you've gotten comfortable over, over the years of, you know, Um, you know, being happy with really high marketing sales, but you know that your industry doesn't necessarily, um, think that, you know, that's not necessarily a value that the industry has.

Then you really got to scale that back at a time so your potential buyer can see that over the course of a couple of years and see the difference that not spending those dollars make. Um, you have to make the profit and loss statement present to a potential buyer in a way that their bank is going to lend them money.

Because really a buyer is only able to buy if they can convince their bank that it's a company that can make some money.

Wendy Brookhouse: Such a great point in the sense that if you're trying to, if you're trying to maybe even update your numbers or change your numbers in such a way so that you're not taking a lot of money out of your company so that you can reduce your taxes that can affect your buyer and yourself when you go forward.

Because bankers are typically, I don't find many of them that are thinking out of the box and can understand that piece.

Cathy Bennett: No, you, and you, I think you, you owe your buyer, um, a set of historical financials, at least for a couple of years that can demonstrate that the company can be affordable at the price that you're asking for, whether it's an asset sale or share sale, it doesn't matter. Um, but I think sometimes as buyers, we often forget That, um, you know, the seller on the other side is going to have to do the exact same thing we did when we bought the business.

Um, and, and we need to make sure that they've got a story to go tell their bank. Otherwise it's really difficult. And in our case, um, you know, we closed the restaurant deal on the 17th of March, 2020. And had the

Wendy Brookhouse: Oh my goodness.

Cathy Bennett: well, had the, had the buyer's bank not had really, uh, clear visibility into consistent financials, I'm not sure we would have closed.

So, you know, I don't suspect there's many in your listening audience that are going to have to face a pandemic the week that they, they close a business transaction, but stuff happens. And that's the why you had to have that consistency of financial performance so that you can give the buyer, um, the material they need to go leverage themselves to buy the business.

Wendy Brookhouse: Well, and you can bring up such good points. Like if you were operated your business every day as if tomorrow someone might want to buy it, that would affect your decisions and how you structure things. And when you look at some of the statistics that say, you know, up to 50 percent of businesses transition involuntarily death, divorce, disability, etc.

Being ready will mean that there's not money left on the table for your family. Thank you very much.

Cathy Bennett: Well, and it was interesting in my case, Wendy, that my first business transaction was actually the sale of a business because that's exactly what happened to my dad. He passed, he passed away, um, while he was in the process of selling the business. So I had to do that first deal. And this was all at the time I was waiting for my boss in the McDonald's world to sell a business for six years.

And to me, you know, it's so important that you have a strategic approach towards the exit. Because the exit, as you just said, it can happen at any time, even when you don't want it to happen, it may need to happen.

Wendy Brookhouse: So, um, we kind of glided over this. However, I think an interesting part of your journey is that you did get into politics and actually were the finance minister for Newfoundland. What made you decide to go serve that way?

Cathy Bennett: Um, for me, um, we have been, um, really privileged with, um, you know, exceptionally loyal, um, crew, uh, team members, and, uh, customers. And for me, I thought, uh, that public office was a way of giving back to the broader community. Um, I thought I had learned some things, um, inside, uh, the business and also in my personal life and my volunteer life that would have been helpful.

Um, and I was anxious to give back and, uh, yeah, it was a real privilege to do that. Um, it didn't, you know, it doesn't, those things, those decisions don't come without other costs, but, um, in retrospect, um, as a family, we still are, are very glad that it was a decision that I was able to, to do for, uh, five years.

Wendy Brookhouse: That's amazing. It's such a, such a different, uh, such a different way of being like we think politics is just like running a business, but there's, I think so many more different stakeholders and pressures. that we're not aware of as business owners.

Cathy Bennett: Yeah, and I, I think, you know, there's, um, you know, public offices, public service, although there are financial similarities in some cases to, you know, how, um, you know, how the bond rating agencies or, or how banking syndicates may want to, you know, put together your, your debt for the provincial treasury. At the end of the day, it's not the same thing as a transaction where there's a customer in a.

And a, a supplier, um, you know, government's roles are about creating policy that help populations thrive, uh, survive and thrive, some people would, would say. And I think it's a, that's a delicate balance of, um, you know, thoughtful decisions, um, that folks need to make. So, kudos to all those folks that are still on the field, as we say, um, serving in municipal, provincial, and federal governments where, wherever they may be serving.

Wendy Brookhouse: It's not easy, particularly as a woman, um, in that field either.

Cathy Bennett: No, it,

Wendy Brookhouse: So then

Cathy Bennett: no, for sure. No, it's no, for sure. It's very challenging. I think, um, you know, for, um, most, uh, folks that are listening, they would appreciate that, um, you know, it's, it's a tough, tough role for a woman. Um, and that's why, um, you know, I was really pleased to do it and I'm also happy to be retired from it now.

Wendy Brookhouse: Well, your latest venture, Kathy, that I'm aware of for the, that the bigger one is really intriguing and really interesting. And that is Sandpiper. What is Sandpiper? How did it come to be?

Cathy Bennett: So Sandpiper Ventures is a venture capital firm that's based in Atlanta, Canada. We invest in early stage startups at the pre seed, seed, and maybe series a stage. Um, and these companies are founded by women or have women in the C suite. Uh, who are also own, uh, meaningful equity in the company. Um, we investing in companies that are trying to solve very, um, the biggest problems of the world today.

And, um, only 2 percent of venture capital money actually ends up with women generally. And those stats have been stagnant now for decades. Um, at least the last five years, six years that I've been working in, in V. C. Um, and in some respects, you know, if I think back to my first experience borrowing money, um, and then I add what I learned when I was minister responsible for status of women on, The access to capital challenges that women entrepreneurs generally have.

Um, I don't think it's, uh, I think the pathway to where I am today is a straight line and, um, I'm really privileged to be able to work with the founders and the investors that, uh, trust us with the money that they invest in our fund so we can invest it in, in, uh, women found enterprises.

Wendy Brookhouse: Why do you think that is? I know it's a big question, but I'm always curious about if there's a, an answer that you think is the reason for women not being funded properly.

Cathy Bennett: Well, I think, um, there's, you know, you know, some would say that, um, there's existing connections in an ecosystem that are already built. Sometimes through hundreds and hundreds of years and relationships that are built and, and it's tough if you, if you're not in those conversations, it's tough to be considered.

What we try to do is to change the way, um, founders are supported, these female founders are supported by supporting them even more on the fundraising side so they can raise that next round with us. Um, and I think, you know, ultimately, you know, to call it out, I mean, there is bias. In decision making, we ask, we know research will tell us that women are asked more risk questions than they are asked growth questions.

Um, and that changes how investors hear your pitch. If you're only at talking about the risks for an hour versus talking about the growth for an hour. Um, you know, somebody's, um, desire to part way with their, their own capital to invest in your business is going to be different. If I think back to how, um, how brazen I was, um, when I went to the, for the bank to ask for money for the joint venture, um, you know, I had 17 years of experience, so there was no risk question that somebody was asking me that I didn't, that I didn't think was trivial.

So when the banks were asking me, um, about risk, I was trivial, trivial, trivial, making it trivial because to me, I was more excited about the growth.

Wendy Brookhouse: right.

Cathy Bennett: But that, if that, if that had happened to me when I was in my first year, I would have definitely been answering a lot of the risk questions. And I think that, um, the systems are built, uh, in a way that don't, uh, allow women to talk about growth of their companies in a way that, um, is typical.

And I, um, you know, I'm always excited when founders are talking about, you know, their inventions or their technology, uh, and you see the passion, uh, coming through. Um, to me, that's, that's what we invest in. That confidence in the problem they're solving.

Wendy Brookhouse: I love that. Solve the biggest problems in the world. Can you give us one example of a company you've invested in? Mm-Hmm.

Cathy Bennett: Uh, sure, um, this one is, uh, um, because I met with her a few minutes ago. Um, she's a, uh, ICU nurse who happens to have also a Bachelor of Business Administration. Uh, she's from Pasadena, Newfoundland. Uh, Deanne McCarthy is her name. And she has, uh, developed a technology, um, to be used in the ICU that will significantly reduce, um, um, Um, the rates of infection for intubated patients and, uh, her technology, her invention, which she created during COVID, um, is just now in clinical trials in the U S and, uh, we're super excited to see, uh, what her compassionate nursing skills and her experience as a nurse coupled with her business acumen is going to, uh, mean to, uh, patient survival rates in the ICU and, and folks getting in and out of the ICU without picking up infections.

Wendy Brookhouse: Oh, that is so interesting. And so you've bought businesses, you, you've sold businesses, you've served in the government and now you're kind of almost like helping another whole new generation of, of owners leverage and get off their feet and, and really amplify the work they're doing. When you look back on that, what, what is the common thread in terms of what is your zone of genius?

Like, what are you the best at that no one else is? Does it the way you do it?

Cathy Bennett: Well, I think, um, I I'll share with you what people tell me and not necessarily what I think, cause that's two different things. What people will tell me is that I see stuff sometimes before other people see it. And I suspect that has more to do with things like around operations and strategy. And it goes back to the early learning that I had as a shift manager, um, in the McDonald's, in a very, very disciplined, very, very, We had great training.

Um, we had, you know, great opportunities to build our leadership skills. And we participated in, you know, quarterly strategic planning. Like this was a, this was a big, big part of the work that we did as, as managers, both junior managers and senior managers. And I think for me, um, that ability to see faster is sometimes route rooted in that, um, uh, experience.

And now, Um, you know, I have, I regularly have folks say, Kathy, I, like, I would have never, ever thought of that idea. And I'm like, well, you know, we thought about it every quarter, so, so it's, um, I don't know if it's unique, it's unique to me. I think I'm privileged because of the, the training I've had and I think that's what some would say is my zone of genius.

Wendy Brookhouse: And it's interesting when we find the zone of genius, we're so good at it. We almost think everybody is and we just had to discount sometimes that ability.

Cathy Bennett: Absolutely. And I, and it's, you know, it's certainly fun. And exciting, uh, to recognize, I think what your zone of genius is and also recognize others in your, in your orbit, uh, for their zone of genius. And I think back to our earlier conversation about my CFOs, CLOs and COOs. Um, I was so blessed to have their zone of genius, keeping us focused and not necessarily.

Um, relying solely on my own, because just because you see it quick doesn't mean you see it right. So, they,

Wendy Brookhouse: there's a mic drop right there.

Cathy Bennett: It, it, it, you know, sometimes you, you know, you luck out 80, about 80 percent of the time I'm probably okay. Uh, but the other 20%, there's other cues that you miss, and I think that's where you need to have a rounded out team that is, is built with a bunch of, of geniuses.

Wendy Brookhouse: Well, Kathy, I have to say thank you so much for your time today. Uh, there were so many great lessons I think that you imparted about your journey and what you learned along the way. And so I know our listeners got a lot out of it, but I think the real bottom line here today is when the day after you buy a business or start a business is the day you start to plan your sale.

Cathy Bennett: hmm.

Wendy Brookhouse: Thank you, Kathy.

Cathy Bennett: Thank you.